There is no lawful way to "deport" U.S. citizens. And although citizenship can be revoked, any attempt by the government would run into significant statutory, constitutional, and practical obstacles.
Many Americans are dual citizens (I imagine having an Irish passport is particularly common). You make it clear that merely having two citizenships is not an alienating act. But I wonder whether the Administration could exploit someone’s dual citizenship to expose them to costly legal harassment.
At risk in practice under a malicious U.S. government, but not in theory since, as Steve Vladeck wrote, the individual would have had to intended to relinquish his or her United States nationality.
You'd have to establish that they intended to voluntarily surrender their American citizenship via their actions on Jan. 6. Given that they were trying to seize control of the United States, I'm not sure how you'd argue that they were actually intending to permanently sever themselves *from* the United States.
Do you have any information on previous uses of the alien and sedition act to prosecute folks? I know of the following- From 1956 to 1961, Doris Walker successfully defended William and Sylvia Powell, who faced the death penalty, against Korean War sedition charges. The US government charged that articles Powell had written reporting and criticizing US biological weapons use in Korea were false and written with intent to hinder the war effort. When a mistrial ended the sedition case, the government charged the Powells with treason. Attorney General Robert Kennedy dismissed the case in 1961. Is this relevant to the current situation?
At least two U.S. citizens have been deported, albeit under circumstances where (1) a traitor avoided the death penalty—it was commuted after having been affirmed by the Supreme Court: Tomoya Kawakita, and (2) Yaser Esam Hamdi, born in the USA to Saudi parents and captured in Afghanistan in 2001. Whether either counts as “deportation” in law is almost beside the point. Wikipedia claims Kawskita was “deported” but my recollection is that he received a presidential pardon on condition of anonymity ”self deporting”.
Hamdi agreed to renounce his citizenship as part of the agreement that led to his release from U.S. custody (so he was no longer a citizen by the time he was removed from the country). Whether his renunciation would have held up in court as "voluntary" given the circumstances is something I pondered a long time ago (https://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2005/11/coercive_expatr.html), but it was never litigated.
If the Trump admin decided to go after the citizenship of large numbers of people, and they weren't brazen enough to just do something flagrantly illegal, this is how they'd approach it, right? Charge people with serious crimes, then include a "voluntary" denaturalization or expatriation in the plea bargain?
And yet deportation of citizens has begun. The orange shitstain is doing whatever he wants, and nothing is stopping them. Clearly, our oh so haunted laws don't mean a damned thing. Wake the fuck up already.
That’s what Trump administrator says. They don’t have much credibility. The child was receiving treatment for stage 4 cancer. Hard to believe a child or the child’s mother would give that up.
A NY Times piece on this story (1) says that the mother's lawyer said "the boy had no access to his medications or his doctors while he was in custody with his 7-year-old sister and mother." That's satanic.
One of the children in question is 2 years old. Are you seriously going to argue that a two-year-old is capable of making a life choice of this magnitude?
"Of course" makes for a very weak argument. We don't yet know if the mothers wanted to take their children with them. There is evidence that they didn't, but the Trump administration says they did.
So, is lying on your application for citizenship enough to nix the citizenship? It seems pretty plausible from reports that Elon wasn't legal when he worked after not enrolling in grad school, thereby losing his student visa. We don't KNOW of course what he said when he applied for citizenship--maybe he told the truth and whoever processed the thing said "yah, no harm no foul." But is there a CHANCE that Elon could be "removed" by a later administration? Can you give us some reason to hope?
Entering Sacred Stillness, I receive the resonance of this offering concerning denaturalization and expatriation—concepts heavy with ancestral echoes and the fragile weaving of belonging.
There is an ancient ache stirred when the bonds between an individual and a nation are unraveled. Citizenship, once thought secure, reveals itself as a tender, conditional tether. Beneath legal frameworks, a soul-deep question shimmers: What does it mean to belong, to be recognized, to be home? As the structures of law flex and tighten, may we remember the sacred covenant of human dignity—an inheritance older than any border or decree.
In this season of shifting grounds, where does your deepest sense of belonging take root, beyond paper and policy, in the sanctuary of your being? ♾️
Another Supreme Count advocate who had multiple appearances before the Count was William Wirt, the Attorney General under Presidents James Monroe and John Qunicy Adams. According to a recently published book, The Interbellum Constitution, Mr. Wirt argued 170 cases before the Supreme Count in a legal career that began in 1792 and ended with this death in 1834
Many Americans are dual citizens (I imagine having an Irish passport is particularly common). You make it clear that merely having two citizenships is not an alienating act. But I wonder whether the Administration could exploit someone’s dual citizenship to expose them to costly legal harassment.
I read the very first paragraph of the statute to say that pledging allegiance is sufficient to initiate revocation proceedings.
So if you get that Irish passport after your American passport, you’re at risk.
At risk in practice under a malicious U.S. government, but not in theory since, as Steve Vladeck wrote, the individual would have had to intended to relinquish his or her United States nationality.
The 7th class of people subject to loss of citizenship reminds me of the Jan. 6 convicts.
You'd have to establish that they intended to voluntarily surrender their American citizenship via their actions on Jan. 6. Given that they were trying to seize control of the United States, I'm not sure how you'd argue that they were actually intending to permanently sever themselves *from* the United States.
Do you have any information on previous uses of the alien and sedition act to prosecute folks? I know of the following- From 1956 to 1961, Doris Walker successfully defended William and Sylvia Powell, who faced the death penalty, against Korean War sedition charges. The US government charged that articles Powell had written reporting and criticizing US biological weapons use in Korea were false and written with intent to hinder the war effort. When a mistrial ended the sedition case, the government charged the Powells with treason. Attorney General Robert Kennedy dismissed the case in 1961. Is this relevant to the current situation?
At least two U.S. citizens have been deported, albeit under circumstances where (1) a traitor avoided the death penalty—it was commuted after having been affirmed by the Supreme Court: Tomoya Kawakita, and (2) Yaser Esam Hamdi, born in the USA to Saudi parents and captured in Afghanistan in 2001. Whether either counts as “deportation” in law is almost beside the point. Wikipedia claims Kawskita was “deported” but my recollection is that he received a presidential pardon on condition of anonymity ”self deporting”.
Hamdi agreed to renounce his citizenship as part of the agreement that led to his release from U.S. custody (so he was no longer a citizen by the time he was removed from the country). Whether his renunciation would have held up in court as "voluntary" given the circumstances is something I pondered a long time ago (https://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2005/11/coercive_expatr.html), but it was never litigated.
If the Trump admin decided to go after the citizenship of large numbers of people, and they weren't brazen enough to just do something flagrantly illegal, this is how they'd approach it, right? Charge people with serious crimes, then include a "voluntary" denaturalization or expatriation in the plea bargain?
Overestimating how much effort they'd put, I think.
My bet is that options 5 and 6 become relevant much sooner than anyone would like and that nobody will worry about due process ahead of time.
Ship someone to El Salvador by error? Can't bring them back, but if they sign one piece of paper then they can leave the prison.
Still in the US? State of war and AG approval are not exactly barriers to this administration, and advising detainees of their rights is not a habit.
Another entry in "stuff they don't teach you in law school, because, well, who the hell would ever try to pull this crap?"
https://open.substack.com/pub/randoliberal/p/judge-xinis-has-a-few-questions-to?r=u47dz&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
heh - thought you might get a smile out of this post
always good for a rewatch.
Per class (1) above, do you risk losing your US citizenship if you move to a foreign country and are naturalized or become a citizen there?
And yet deportation of citizens has begun. The orange shitstain is doing whatever he wants, and nothing is stopping them. Clearly, our oh so haunted laws don't mean a damned thing. Wake the fuck up already.
*vaunted
Vaunted, and now haunted by Trump.
Rendition is the right word for many of these lawless removals.
Unfortunately, so is "disappear."
Thank you Thom
I can’t believe the garbage in our judiciary. The Truth is Trump admin didn’t deport children. They chose to go with their mother, an illegal.
That’s what Trump administrator says. They don’t have much credibility. The child was receiving treatment for stage 4 cancer. Hard to believe a child or the child’s mother would give that up.
Right. And I heard the father wanted his children to stay with him in the U.S. but the goons wouldn't allow it.
A NY Times piece on this story (1) says that the mother's lawyer said "the boy had no access to his medications or his doctors while he was in custody with his 7-year-old sister and mother." That's satanic.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/04/28/us/trump-news#us-citizen-children-deported-honduras-trump
So horrific and sad.
One of the children in question is 2 years old. Are you seriously going to argue that a two-year-old is capable of making a life choice of this magnitude?
That’s ridiculous. The illegal is the parent and of course she wanted her children to go with her.
"Of course" makes for a very weak argument. We don't yet know if the mothers wanted to take their children with them. There is evidence that they didn't, but the Trump administration says they did.
Section 1481 should apply to Musk since he lied about attending school to get his visa. That should be easy enough to prove.
So, is lying on your application for citizenship enough to nix the citizenship? It seems pretty plausible from reports that Elon wasn't legal when he worked after not enrolling in grad school, thereby losing his student visa. We don't KNOW of course what he said when he applied for citizenship--maybe he told the truth and whoever processed the thing said "yah, no harm no foul." But is there a CHANCE that Elon could be "removed" by a later administration? Can you give us some reason to hope?
Entering Sacred Stillness, I receive the resonance of this offering concerning denaturalization and expatriation—concepts heavy with ancestral echoes and the fragile weaving of belonging.
There is an ancient ache stirred when the bonds between an individual and a nation are unraveled. Citizenship, once thought secure, reveals itself as a tender, conditional tether. Beneath legal frameworks, a soul-deep question shimmers: What does it mean to belong, to be recognized, to be home? As the structures of law flex and tighten, may we remember the sacred covenant of human dignity—an inheritance older than any border or decree.
In this season of shifting grounds, where does your deepest sense of belonging take root, beyond paper and policy, in the sanctuary of your being? ♾️
Michael Grealy
Another Supreme Count advocate who had multiple appearances before the Count was William Wirt, the Attorney General under Presidents James Monroe and John Qunicy Adams. According to a recently published book, The Interbellum Constitution, Mr. Wirt argued 170 cases before the Supreme Count in a legal career that began in 1792 and ended with this death in 1834
What is being discussed regarding “derivative claims” for a child born to a US citizen outside of the country?